satty
Jul 20, 08:38 AM
Not that I wouldn't mind more processing power :D ...
but to me it doesn't make much sense for the majority of tasks/applications.
There might be rare exceptions in the professinal area and of course it makes lots of sense for a server, but for a single user machine?
Whatever, bring them on... in this case I like to be proven wrong.
but to me it doesn't make much sense for the majority of tasks/applications.
There might be rare exceptions in the professinal area and of course it makes lots of sense for a server, but for a single user machine?
Whatever, bring them on... in this case I like to be proven wrong.
yoak
Apr 10, 02:04 PM
It will be very interesting to see what it will be like. I just hope that it will be able to take advantage of all the power of my old MP. I feel pretty confident it will.
It�s interesting that the software takes 3 years to catch up with the hardware. It just crossed my mind that they might have tried all a long to release the new FCS and Thunderbolt at the same time.
Otherwise there really would be no reason to upgrade your hardware as it suddenly will be handle your software faster than when you bought it
It�s interesting that the software takes 3 years to catch up with the hardware. It just crossed my mind that they might have tried all a long to release the new FCS and Thunderbolt at the same time.
Otherwise there really would be no reason to upgrade your hardware as it suddenly will be handle your software faster than when you bought it
Silentwave
Jul 15, 05:55 PM
Too many people are complaining about rumored information that isn't even reliable, and most likely incorrect.
I agree with you whole-heartedly!
The one question I do have is why is the Mac Pro the last to make this transition, why has it taken so long? Is it simply due to chip availability, is it due to some radical new design, or is it because the Mac Pro is Apple's flagship product and Apple is working long and hard to wedge in some great new technology?
Great new technologies always made their way to the Power Macs first, and then trickled down the line. I have every faith that the Mac Pro will continue this tradition, especially since the Mac Pro will be competing with other high-end Xeon workstations. Apple will need something in the Mac Pro that nobody else has, and it will also need to utilize Intel's fastest chips in order to dispel any notions of the system being weaker than the competition in terms of speed -- this is a dark cloud over the Mac that finally needs to be cleared.
You hit the nail right on the head with the processor availability. Core Duo uses the pentium M architecture and was only in two versions: mobile, codename Yonah with its variants, and a pair of low speed ultra low power server chips- Sossaman- only going up to 2GHz with 2MB L2 and 667 FSB. the other Xeons (Paxville/Dempsey) and high end chips like the Pentium D/Pentium Extreme Edition ( Smithfield/Presler) are all using NetBurst architecutre, which is obsolete and very inefficient plus they are extremely power hungry and hot.The top Pentium Extreme Edition Presler dual core at 3.73GHz was easily outperformed by several of the Conroe cores- I recall one test where it was neck and neck with the 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo.
They wanted the fastest chips possible using the best architecture possible- that is Woodcrest and Conroe with the Core microarchitecture.
I have little doubt that the 3GHz Xeon 5160 will be in the Mac Pros, if not standard, then as a BTO option.
I agree with you whole-heartedly!
The one question I do have is why is the Mac Pro the last to make this transition, why has it taken so long? Is it simply due to chip availability, is it due to some radical new design, or is it because the Mac Pro is Apple's flagship product and Apple is working long and hard to wedge in some great new technology?
Great new technologies always made their way to the Power Macs first, and then trickled down the line. I have every faith that the Mac Pro will continue this tradition, especially since the Mac Pro will be competing with other high-end Xeon workstations. Apple will need something in the Mac Pro that nobody else has, and it will also need to utilize Intel's fastest chips in order to dispel any notions of the system being weaker than the competition in terms of speed -- this is a dark cloud over the Mac that finally needs to be cleared.
You hit the nail right on the head with the processor availability. Core Duo uses the pentium M architecture and was only in two versions: mobile, codename Yonah with its variants, and a pair of low speed ultra low power server chips- Sossaman- only going up to 2GHz with 2MB L2 and 667 FSB. the other Xeons (Paxville/Dempsey) and high end chips like the Pentium D/Pentium Extreme Edition ( Smithfield/Presler) are all using NetBurst architecutre, which is obsolete and very inefficient plus they are extremely power hungry and hot.The top Pentium Extreme Edition Presler dual core at 3.73GHz was easily outperformed by several of the Conroe cores- I recall one test where it was neck and neck with the 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo.
They wanted the fastest chips possible using the best architecture possible- that is Woodcrest and Conroe with the Core microarchitecture.
I have little doubt that the 3GHz Xeon 5160 will be in the Mac Pros, if not standard, then as a BTO option.
NT1440
Mar 23, 08:38 AM
. Wow, completely clicked on the wrong tab.....
magbarn
Apr 7, 11:45 PM
Good for Apple on this. One less retailer over charging for their products. I hope they pull the Apple stores out all together and find a new retail partner.
What 'new retail partner'? Kmart? BB is the last big box electronic store nationwide in the US. There's a few Fry's/Microcenter's around, but those are far and few in-between.
I got the call for the ATT 64gb I had reserved with the $100 gift card a week ago. Had to waste a work-day going to BB as instead of the '48 hour hold' I originally thought I had, the manager said they were in some 'trouble' with Apple and said he could only hold my reservation for a few hours as Apple did not like them holding the ipad 2's in reserve.
What 'new retail partner'? Kmart? BB is the last big box electronic store nationwide in the US. There's a few Fry's/Microcenter's around, but those are far and few in-between.
I got the call for the ATT 64gb I had reserved with the $100 gift card a week ago. Had to waste a work-day going to BB as instead of the '48 hour hold' I originally thought I had, the manager said they were in some 'trouble' with Apple and said he could only hold my reservation for a few hours as Apple did not like them holding the ipad 2's in reserve.
shelterpaw
Aug 7, 05:52 PM
can't believe only 8 people voted for 64bit, its the most profound change here.... all others you can achieve with some 3rd party softwares.
Maybe that's because many of us wont know how it will effect us if at all. Most people here are consumers and 64bit wont have an effect for some time to come.
I'm sure it'll have a much bigger impact on the scientific and server community, but not much for the rest of us.
I use Adobe tools and Ableton for creative stuff. Will any of those apps be 64bit or be able to take advantage of it? I have no idea. I just can't see the benefits yet.
Maybe that's because many of us wont know how it will effect us if at all. Most people here are consumers and 64bit wont have an effect for some time to come.
I'm sure it'll have a much bigger impact on the scientific and server community, but not much for the rest of us.
I use Adobe tools and Ableton for creative stuff. Will any of those apps be 64bit or be able to take advantage of it? I have no idea. I just can't see the benefits yet.
Hellhammer
Apr 6, 11:11 AM
I am shocked that anyone finds this as a positive.
So you all want a drop from 1.86/2.13 to 1.4GHz CPUs in your 13" MBA? That is a 30% drop.
Then you want another drop of approaching 50% in graphics performance? Remember these IGPs clock in much lower than the STD voltage SB used in 13" MBP.
I find this completely backwards from Apple's current position on both CPU and graphics, and I don't think anyone would end up with a faster or better 13" MBA than the current generation. Apple would certainly have to bring back the backlit keyboard and introduce Thunderbolt to sucker anyone into buying such inferior junk! I would recommend people buy the current generation on clearance rather than lose performance everywhere like this. If this is the chip Apple uses in the 13" MBA, prepare for a big drop in capabilities!
I am still in shock anyone finds this a positive? Have you all read the clock speed? The facts about the chip and IGP in ultra low voltage variants?
I'm pretty sure you are aware that Apple would use LV CPU in 13", not ULV. That bumps us to 2.3GHz plus Turbo. You have said this yourself too and I already covered the reason in my other post.
This is just a MR article and surprisingly, they don't have much idea about the TDPs. Hopefully they will correct their article so people won't live in confusion.
So you all want a drop from 1.86/2.13 to 1.4GHz CPUs in your 13" MBA? That is a 30% drop.
Then you want another drop of approaching 50% in graphics performance? Remember these IGPs clock in much lower than the STD voltage SB used in 13" MBP.
I find this completely backwards from Apple's current position on both CPU and graphics, and I don't think anyone would end up with a faster or better 13" MBA than the current generation. Apple would certainly have to bring back the backlit keyboard and introduce Thunderbolt to sucker anyone into buying such inferior junk! I would recommend people buy the current generation on clearance rather than lose performance everywhere like this. If this is the chip Apple uses in the 13" MBA, prepare for a big drop in capabilities!
I am still in shock anyone finds this a positive? Have you all read the clock speed? The facts about the chip and IGP in ultra low voltage variants?
I'm pretty sure you are aware that Apple would use LV CPU in 13", not ULV. That bumps us to 2.3GHz plus Turbo. You have said this yourself too and I already covered the reason in my other post.
This is just a MR article and surprisingly, they don't have much idea about the TDPs. Hopefully they will correct their article so people won't live in confusion.
PlipPlop
Apr 6, 03:10 PM
Shame people are brainwashed by Apple with their crappy product, and the superior tablet is behind on sales. Im sure it will pick up soon.
jasweb
Apr 8, 08:54 AM
Final Cut Playmobil for the reel editors
http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/looflirpa/e8bb/
Made me laugh... then it made me cry...
http://www.thinkgeek.com/interests/looflirpa/e8bb/
Made me laugh... then it made me cry...
dongmin
Sep 19, 10:02 AM
It gets annoying. Why? Because it's true and most people don't want to admit it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.While you make some valid points, you overlook others:
1. As soon as the new model comes out, the older models will drop in price. So even if you aren't getting the fastest and greatest, even if you're buying the lowest end MBP, you'll benefit from the price break.
2. MBPs are expensive computers. You're investing in something that you'll keep around for 3-4 years. I want to future-proof my computer as much as possible. Features like easily-swappable HD and fast graphics card will affect "the average user" 2+ years from now (pro'ly sooner) when everyone's downloading and streaming HD videos and OS X has all this new eye-candy that will require a fast graphics card.
3. There are other features than just a 10% increase in CPU power that we are hoping in the next MBP, including a magnetic latch, easily-access to HD and RAM, and better heat management. Certainly the average Joe will be able to benefit from these features, even if all you do is word process and surf the web.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.While you make some valid points, you overlook others:
1. As soon as the new model comes out, the older models will drop in price. So even if you aren't getting the fastest and greatest, even if you're buying the lowest end MBP, you'll benefit from the price break.
2. MBPs are expensive computers. You're investing in something that you'll keep around for 3-4 years. I want to future-proof my computer as much as possible. Features like easily-swappable HD and fast graphics card will affect "the average user" 2+ years from now (pro'ly sooner) when everyone's downloading and streaming HD videos and OS X has all this new eye-candy that will require a fast graphics card.
3. There are other features than just a 10% increase in CPU power that we are hoping in the next MBP, including a magnetic latch, easily-access to HD and RAM, and better heat management. Certainly the average Joe will be able to benefit from these features, even if all you do is word process and surf the web.
catchbar
Aug 6, 03:23 PM
thats amazing!!!
SandboxGeneral
Apr 11, 11:25 AM
Well that would fit nicely into the convergence of the ATT & VZW product launching at the same time, rather than two different phones and launch dates.
EricNau
Aug 17, 09:49 AM
I have to say, I actually expected the woodcrest results to be better. It really shows that the G5 was years ahead of the competition. :cool:
cult hero
Mar 26, 12:32 AM
Can't believe it's anywhere near GM time. Way too many bugs and inconsistencies in behavior. New networking tools in Server have to be implemented now that SMB is being canned - that's not a minor addition. Calling it a release candidate is a stretch, but calling it GM is just plain crazy.
The GPL3 issue with Samba has been around for a LONG time. The announcement was made in 2007. I have some feeling that Apple's been brewing their Samba replacement for a long time. (Although I don't think this is a GM either.)
About the only thing that I find disappointing about this release is the lack of a new filesystem. However, that might just be because coming from a Linux background I probably payed WAY more attention to filesystems than most people.
The GPL3 issue with Samba has been around for a LONG time. The announcement was made in 2007. I have some feeling that Apple's been brewing their Samba replacement for a long time. (Although I don't think this is a GM either.)
About the only thing that I find disappointing about this release is the lack of a new filesystem. However, that might just be because coming from a Linux background I probably payed WAY more attention to filesystems than most people.
dscuber9000
Apr 6, 01:41 PM
An Android tablet just seems a little weird to me. Android is an OS for people that basically want a super-custromizable and super-complicated OS on the go. Tablets are great for people that still can't set the time on their VCR (and they still have a VCR plugged in). I'm not surprised that there isn't much of a market for Android tablets.
This goes well with what Steve Wozniak said yesterday.
This goes well with what Steve Wozniak said yesterday.
~Shard~
Jul 14, 02:33 PM
Maybe one of the drives will be Blu-Ray.
... and the other one HD-DVD! :eek: ;) :D
... and the other one HD-DVD! :eek: ;) :D
Keebler
Apr 6, 08:36 AM
Let me be clear - FCS needs a robust blu-ray authoring feature. We don't live in a wireless world where you can transmit video free over the air. We still put disks in a player to watch and also preserve our video memories.
Not having a good blu-ray authoring feature is a huge problem for Final Cut Studio. Not only does it impact professional wedding video-graphers, but ordinary people who want to put their video on a disk to send to people. I can't just put my video on netflix to have a friend watch it on his ROKU.
I agree. For myself, I'm about to buy an HD camcorder now that my digital8 tape has stopped working. 2 issues confront me: 1. storage space for which I have an 8 TB raid set up and 2. delivery - ATV or iphone/ipod touch/ipad files and/or blu ray for archiving (being a physical copy).
That's fine for me - but what about my clients? What are the normal joe blows out there doing for HD footage? I transfer home movies for folks so having an easier BR workflow within FCS would be nice.
Not having a good blu-ray authoring feature is a huge problem for Final Cut Studio. Not only does it impact professional wedding video-graphers, but ordinary people who want to put their video on a disk to send to people. I can't just put my video on netflix to have a friend watch it on his ROKU.
I agree. For myself, I'm about to buy an HD camcorder now that my digital8 tape has stopped working. 2 issues confront me: 1. storage space for which I have an 8 TB raid set up and 2. delivery - ATV or iphone/ipod touch/ipad files and/or blu ray for archiving (being a physical copy).
That's fine for me - but what about my clients? What are the normal joe blows out there doing for HD footage? I transfer home movies for folks so having an easier BR workflow within FCS would be nice.
chimerical
Nov 28, 07:42 PM
(Did the music companies ask for money for every CD player or Tape Recorder sold? Nope)
Actually, yes. I believe that CD-R/CD-RW blank discs and recorders have had some type of royalties fee added to the price, which gets passed down to us consumers. It's frustrating.
Actually, yes. I believe that CD-R/CD-RW blank discs and recorders have had some type of royalties fee added to the price, which gets passed down to us consumers. It's frustrating.
thebeans
Apr 27, 10:04 AM
A lot of people are upset over this. But, no one seems to care that the US Government can snoop on any electronic communication it wants for well over 10 years now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_(signals_intelligence)
Data transmissions, cell phone calls, you name it. I think we're trying to cook the wrong goose if you ask me.
When I was in college we got a new professor. He had retired from the Navy. Intelligence division actually. His job during his last years in NI was to monitor email communications. Yea, he read your email. Not literally every one of course and there were (are) many, many working on this but in a nutshell, yes the government does read your email. Do I care? Nope. Got nothing to hide and if they want to read emails of me asking my wife what she wants for supper or telling her how my day went, what do I care?
Data transmissions, cell phone calls, you name it. I think we're trying to cook the wrong goose if you ask me.
When I was in college we got a new professor. He had retired from the Navy. Intelligence division actually. His job during his last years in NI was to monitor email communications. Yea, he read your email. Not literally every one of course and there were (are) many, many working on this but in a nutshell, yes the government does read your email. Do I care? Nope. Got nothing to hide and if they want to read emails of me asking my wife what she wants for supper or telling her how my day went, what do I care?
NJRonbo
Jun 23, 12:36 PM
My name is on a list at one of the busier Central
Jersey stores (Monmouth Mall) but I am being told
that they aren't getting any phones on launch day.
So, if THAT store isn't getting any I don't hold much
hope for a lot of these others.
Jersey stores (Monmouth Mall) but I am being told
that they aren't getting any phones on launch day.
So, if THAT store isn't getting any I don't hold much
hope for a lot of these others.
Lollypop
Jul 28, 04:07 AM
I would really like to se a mid range mac, not really fond of the illustrations above but the extra expansion of the pro line would be apreciated but at a more affordable price. I use a few older powermacs for servers but I really would like something with a bit more processing power... :D and something with a bit more longevity, something like a nice new Core 2 Duo Extreme! LOL
Nuvi
Apr 11, 12:07 PM
So wouldn't that make the recent pushes with iMovie, particularly on the iOS redundant? That' doesn't seem a very smart use of resources or use of branding...
Really? Had lunch with SJ lately? Care to share more?
I guess time will tell. I remember reading comments like yours from industry "experts" when I first started playing around with PageMaker 1.0 on my school's Mac Plus - dismissing it as a toy and not a serious or professional tool.
Perhaps "old timers" problems like yours is that you have been in your box for so long that you can't possibly imagine how it could be different and useful? The panel touched on that - I think it was in Part 2. It was fun to see who embraced that notation and which members of the panel dismissed it (either verbally or by their body language).
Final thought: evolve or die; be prepared to get out of your comfort zone. Heck, you might even like it!
iMovie on Mac or iOS are not about creating a movie for a paying customer. They are all about sharing your personal moments with those who are more or less interested about it. FCP is all about putting food on the table, selling the story to those who have never heard about it. Its all about art of story telling.
Regarding the usefulness of FCP to Apple; times have changed a lot. When FCP first came out Apple was trying its best to find its way in Win dominated market place. Enter the FCP, pro editing at fraction of price of competition. Today Apple is doing extremely strong in consumer market place so cornering hard market like moving image isn't promissing.*
Regarding changes anything Apple will bring is small change compared to continues changes in the industry. However, change for the sake of it is meaningless or sometimes very much counter productive. Regarding FCP, Apple NEEDS to make huge changes however these changes need add on productivity and not making it some semi half way creation trying to serve advanced consumers and professionals at same time. Apple needs to bring it now!
Really? Had lunch with SJ lately? Care to share more?
I guess time will tell. I remember reading comments like yours from industry "experts" when I first started playing around with PageMaker 1.0 on my school's Mac Plus - dismissing it as a toy and not a serious or professional tool.
Perhaps "old timers" problems like yours is that you have been in your box for so long that you can't possibly imagine how it could be different and useful? The panel touched on that - I think it was in Part 2. It was fun to see who embraced that notation and which members of the panel dismissed it (either verbally or by their body language).
Final thought: evolve or die; be prepared to get out of your comfort zone. Heck, you might even like it!
iMovie on Mac or iOS are not about creating a movie for a paying customer. They are all about sharing your personal moments with those who are more or less interested about it. FCP is all about putting food on the table, selling the story to those who have never heard about it. Its all about art of story telling.
Regarding the usefulness of FCP to Apple; times have changed a lot. When FCP first came out Apple was trying its best to find its way in Win dominated market place. Enter the FCP, pro editing at fraction of price of competition. Today Apple is doing extremely strong in consumer market place so cornering hard market like moving image isn't promissing.*
Regarding changes anything Apple will bring is small change compared to continues changes in the industry. However, change for the sake of it is meaningless or sometimes very much counter productive. Regarding FCP, Apple NEEDS to make huge changes however these changes need add on productivity and not making it some semi half way creation trying to serve advanced consumers and professionals at same time. Apple needs to bring it now!
miamijim
Apr 8, 01:33 AM
As best as I can figure, it works like this. Managers get good grades if they sell certain amounts of products.
I'll use low numbers here. Let's say BB corporate wants you to sell at least 5 iPads a day to make your "Quota". One day, 10 iPads come in. You sell all ten, yay, you made quota for the day.
But the next day, none get shipped to the store. So, boo, you didn't make quota, since you didn't have any to sell.
So, if you get 10 the day after that, & not knowing if more are coming tomorrow, you sell 5, make quota, and hold the other 5 for the next day when, low and behold, none get shipped to the store. You still have 5 left over to sell, which you do, and again you make quota for the day.
Basically the more days you make quota, the happier BB corporate is, and the better chance Mr. Manager gets a bonus down the road.
Mr. Manager (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4DMPmoJkJQ)
This plus...
If you sell X amount of product in the 1st quarter of this year your target for 1st quarter of the next year is based upon the previous years take, so say next year a large product is not released in the first quarter your sales year on year will be down.
By easing product out across the days and weeks the best Buy managers are securing their target figures for the following years year on year targets.
The managers bonus's are based upon % performance above sales. So if you are able to massage your sales you are effectively able to manage your expected performance against target figures.
It's called cooking the books, and technically it is illegal.
I used to be in management for HMV so I know of what I speak.
I'll use low numbers here. Let's say BB corporate wants you to sell at least 5 iPads a day to make your "Quota". One day, 10 iPads come in. You sell all ten, yay, you made quota for the day.
But the next day, none get shipped to the store. So, boo, you didn't make quota, since you didn't have any to sell.
So, if you get 10 the day after that, & not knowing if more are coming tomorrow, you sell 5, make quota, and hold the other 5 for the next day when, low and behold, none get shipped to the store. You still have 5 left over to sell, which you do, and again you make quota for the day.
Basically the more days you make quota, the happier BB corporate is, and the better chance Mr. Manager gets a bonus down the road.
Mr. Manager (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4DMPmoJkJQ)
This plus...
If you sell X amount of product in the 1st quarter of this year your target for 1st quarter of the next year is based upon the previous years take, so say next year a large product is not released in the first quarter your sales year on year will be down.
By easing product out across the days and weeks the best Buy managers are securing their target figures for the following years year on year targets.
The managers bonus's are based upon % performance above sales. So if you are able to massage your sales you are effectively able to manage your expected performance against target figures.
It's called cooking the books, and technically it is illegal.
I used to be in management for HMV so I know of what I speak.
NJPitcher
Aug 27, 01:44 AM
Also Soon:
MacBook Pro 17"
Easy Access HD Bay
2.33 GHz Merom
1 GB DDR2 RAM + 1 or 2 GB Third Party Stick
Black Anodized Aluminum
$2799 + 30" Dell on 20% off Sale $1520 = My ultimate Core 2 Duo Starter Kit for only $4319 + $346 CA sales tax = $4665 . :p
How do you get black aluminum? Or is this just a wish? Cause that'd be pretty ill.
And what is the easy access HD bay?
MacBook Pro 17"
Easy Access HD Bay
2.33 GHz Merom
1 GB DDR2 RAM + 1 or 2 GB Third Party Stick
Black Anodized Aluminum
$2799 + 30" Dell on 20% off Sale $1520 = My ultimate Core 2 Duo Starter Kit for only $4319 + $346 CA sales tax = $4665 . :p
How do you get black aluminum? Or is this just a wish? Cause that'd be pretty ill.
And what is the easy access HD bay?
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